Thoughts on Project Sansar: Clarity from LabChat

I missed LabChat because i kept crashing out but i caught the whole thing on Drax’s Radio hour and things are becoming more clear about how Sansar will manifest. Here are some of things Ebbe CEO of Linden Lab said that i found most interesting.

 

Experiences not Islands.

One of the major things that’s happening with Sansar seems to be changing definitions that we are used to in Second Life. Second Life is a virtual world made up of lots of islands, but in Sansar Linden Lab keep referring to experiences. It will be interesting to see if the Lab actually does away with the concept of land and ownership of it. Perhaps we will see experiences in Sansar using as much land as is needed for the experience?

 

Not a connected grid… but it could be.

There was an interesting segment where they discussed the Map Metaphor used in Second Life. Since the very beginning we have looked at the SL grid as one big land ‘ The Grid’ where in some instances you can walk from one island to another and on and on if you are on the mainland. It would appear Sansar will not be like this. There will not be one big map showing your position on the grid and every experience will be separate from each other unless their creators collaborate to join those experiences.

 

Your avatar might be different in every experience.

This might be a real controversial for many SL users. As i understood Ebbe’s words, it will be up to the creators of these experiences how you will look. You could look different from one experience to another. Ebbe described a situation where you visit a space experience and should be offered appropriate attire. Optimistic people might hope Ebbe means just clothing will change and that your chosen avatar will stay the same from experience to experience. I don’t believe this will be the case.

It would crap all over the dreams some are having over a new awesome ultra customisable avatar in Sansar. But also it would put pressure on experience designers to offer playable characters, so i have to wonder if i understood him correctly. Having experience specific Avatars would suggest experience specific inventories too and that leads me to suppose that each experience would be like how we SL users see as Grids.

 

Sounds like a lot of work

Suddenly creating an Experience on Sansar looks like a huge project to undertake. Not only would i be in charge of how it looks graphically, i’d be in charge of how my visitors look, and what they collect, i’d be managing my own little mini grid. In a way it feels like linden Lab decided ‘We’ve had to deal with all this user crap for years, now you can in Sansar’ :-p Until i get to be in Sansar myself i’ll speculate all day what it’ll be like.

Im very excited about Project Sansar.

I hope it works on Mac.

How easy is it to learn C# script?

10 thoughts on “Thoughts on Project Sansar: Clarity from LabChat

  1. Reading a few things in sansar that sounds toworry about. The first time for me. I need to watch the drax video first,then i come back. Especially the avatar part sounds bad, if true. +1 for high fidelity there.

    And who says the still want C# as programming language ?
    Posting mabye back later. More distortion in the universe. we can always move to opensim if everything else fail.

  2. Ok, After listen to the drax audio stream. your pretty close or already in panic mode. Lot’s of things do not sound right. In the first 30min you still hear that the really do not understand why people leave Secondlife. because the monthgly tier is to high !, it’s not the setup costs, but the better keep that much lower too.

    Then you get the whole idea of experiences sounds not good. So i see, you getas example

    – Verhicle experience, planes boats, cars etc.
    – Child experience
    – S** experience
    – Furry experience
    – etc.

    Ok, that can be worked around if everybody can join the experience togheter so it get a big experience with islands you maby could connect by roads, trains, boats etc. The problematic freaky part is mabye that the want to allow the exeprience owner to change your carefull selkected and put togheter avatar in something that feels complete wrong. In my case, that sounds more bad then good. So your forced to stay in one experience, because if you visit other you can change. it’s not clear if there’s experience possible with not required avatar change.

    The main scripting language. uhmm sorry it sound smore like programming language is indeed C#. but it seems to run on top of something else sofar i understand. Intressting. But it sounds things get more complicated. I understand that inventory is not global between experiences.

    Between the letters you could taste that tier is not going away in sansar. How expensive sansar really is going to be is still unclear.

    Then what i did understand, it sounds more sansar is a framework , like high fidelity. where people can build there own experiences on in sansar. It’s like i saying many times. just as complete or incomplete as high fidelity in the begin. It’s especially important that HMD is nice to have. but keep it optional and concentrate on keyboard and mouse, that you can combine with voice for some when the want.

    ——

    Panic time, because this really not sounds right. Secondlife still way to expensive. virtual life have one problem, you have or friends and no land. Or land and not really friends.

    ——

    Now the idea’s:

    Why is linden lab not converting Seconbdlife so it can run on top of SanSar,

    Or why do the not make a new Type of Secondlfie where linden lab is only running the assets, marketplace etc. But let people run the server side by them self. or optional rent some from linden lab. To get the server software you need to have offcorse a premium account. That way things could be pretty low in prices. it also takes the load partly off linden labs head about the servers. Optional 3rd party’s could start to rent servers too.

    And because linden lab is storing the assets, and the viewer is connecting straight for the assets to Linden lab. i can work secure too. if the do it encrypted it must work better. That way you can still make experiences too. And you have a 3D internet. And people could pay it if linden lab is not so greedy. Optional people could host assets the make by them self from the server you run the sim on.

    Only simborders mabye get more tricky :O but if linden lab let you make bigger parcels that problem can go away too.

    • My dear friend Richardus. I accept that everything i read or hear about Project Sansar might be wrong but it is hard to see it being anything like Second Life. You have to unlearn what you have learnt in Second Life.

      How they will monetise Sansar was not made clear probably because they still have not decided. Remember Second Life tried a few different money options before they settled on Land Tier. They describe Sansar as being like Youtube if you see each youtube video as a mini game or experience. Youtube get their revenue from selling your data and showing you ads. I hope Linden Lab won’t go down that route. I would like a more honest approach, something like Patreon where the experience or a creator is funded by their fans and LL could take a cut. Would you rather pay me a little support each month to supply you with a place to hang out or Linden Lab? 😛

      Yes C# is the Lab’s preferred scripting language for Sansar. Im going to start looking at tutorial apps on Apple Appstore and see if i can learn it. It’s not clear if scripting will work the same as in Second Life, such as dropping scripts into objects.

      I believe Linden Lab are making something new, not a remake of Second Life. They are making something that is closer to being a ‘Game engine’ rather than Second Life. In a world where creating games is closer than ever to being democratised for anyone to do, Linden Lab could be building a platform that does all the hard work laying down foundations for people to create their own virtual spaces, add game mechanics and content then share with friends, family, anyone. It’s also not going to be second life, but its still going to be exciting.

      I think everything you bring into second life gets recreated as part of SL’s old infrastructure. That won’t be compatible with Sansar. It makes sense really. Why would you create a nice shiny efficient new system, then retrofit an emulation of something old and inefficient?

      I agree with you about how it sounds like Sansar will be frame work like HyFy, except we’ve already seen a short clip showing something that appears better than anything i’ve seen from HyFy yet. My question is how easy was it to put together the buildings, the bridge and the avatars. How much will Sansar do for you? because when i was in HyFy i had to do everything from importing avatars to scripting them to animate and i couldn’t because the foundations where not yet there for me to simply create. I await glimpses of Sensors building interface.

      • It also difficult with the few data we have. I feel like a cat in corner and mabye react sometimes like that.

        C# i can work with after some short learning, it’s more important that the have good documentation. That’s also the reason why i do not spend time on learning scripting for high fidelity. it’s mabye waste of time. I spend it in blender for now when i want.

        Am not sure if it’s already the right time to learn C#, i expect small differences between c# for windows and sansar. Another question on the pile. I think the same is vald for high fidelity with javascript.

        The unlearning is not a bug problem, but not as long you switch between Secondlife, high fidelity and later sansar.

        I have so my idea’s how some thing could be in sansar. but it keeps guessing. I hope mesh is going to work the same as in high fidelity. i noticed it make some things more easy.

        I think that sansar in the begin requires tools like blender and maya etc. Let’s pray am complete wrong with tht. Because i see how important inworld build tools are for people. Also i think we still need too many things like animations, etc. Another guess. but good to say and we can laugh about it in 2 years.:)

        Really curious about the land size… need some waiting.

        After reading stella reply it’s a bit more clear how to look at experiences. Still lot’s of questions. But hiw to combine the small groups from secondlife is mavye something that made me jump. depends on many things unknown.

  3. As far as I know, experience creators have the choice to either allow the personlized avatar of a Sansar user or to offer experience avatars or to force the experience avatar on the user.

    It is important to understand that Sansar will not be a brand. It will be a technological platform like WordPress that offers people to create their own brands and promote it to the outside world.

    It will be an exciting cross between a game engine like Unreal and virtual world principles. In my eyes this has much more advantages than disadvantages. There does not exist an SL community anyway. Most people stay 90% of their time in their chosen community. There will be a lot of whining that Sansar has higher walls arround the different experiences/communities than SL, but in “average” user behaviour, not much would change.

    The greatest thing about the new concept will be, that “story driven” experiences and sex communities will be much better seperated. They will be totally different brands. There are WordPress blogs with sexual content, but no one would say that WordPress is about sex.

    The second great thing will be, that it will be much easier to promote your experience to the outside world. You can promote your experience as a real game (and not as a game within Second Life). So the possible audience will be so much bigger! That’s also the reason why offering some experience avatars (in addition to the personal avatars of wider Sansar users and the Sansar starter avatars) might be a good idea.

    Forcing specific experience avatars on people will only be something for big companies that don’t want half naked avatars in their experience. However, people will prefer going everywhere with their own avatar and the experience needs to be really good or forcing another avatar could be a reason for many people to avoid it.

    • This idea that we might have one avatar that can move between experiences seems wishful at the moment, or just assumed. Ebbe was quite specific in once sense that when you visit an experience you will take on the identity offered to you in that experience. It’s definitely the one thing i’d love to be clarified.

      He has stated that we will have one overall account which will probably be our names, but it sounded at least to me, that hopping between experiences means for ever changing our appearance.

      One thought springs to mind. Linden Lab have said there will be a marketplace in Sansar. There for if Avatars are assets for experiences, then it’s possible to assume that they could be offered on the Sansar Marketplace to be added to an experience.

      I personally hope that users of Sansar will be allowed to build their own avatars for use across experiences. This is one of the major unique ways for communicating shared interests in Second Life. Perhaps their could be an option for the creators to choose wether users can use their own avatars or force them to take on an experience specific one. If users don’t have the option to create how they look, then i wonder if perhaps users don’t even have an inventory?

  4. I know so little about the project but already like it less and less with what I hear until more has been revealed and I can get a real look at it (as with others who are waiting) I can only go by what little I know so far a a user with no headgear or vr equipment (which yes is not needed but the idea seems to be geared more toward that. many users don’t know c# and not all will be able to learn. Mesh or models don’t give the kind of building blocks that many people in sl would use some cause they can’t figure out how to do the other. sure in sl I have mesh avatars but many are problematic in one way or another and not just in sl but largely there. you loose alot of customization that you have with prims and sculpts sure prims are old and only can do so much so maybe creating new ones or a new set/type of building blocks even in sl letting people build even more. and not having to worry so much about rigging and such yeah that’s more toward sl there but my point is to me it doesn’t sound as great as it did initially course knowing next to nothing it’s easier to hope or imagine then when information starts filling the blanks only way to.know wait and see what it is actually like.

    • I’m starting to look at it this way… In SL you have LL= Platform and Users=Content + Consumers. In Sansar it will be LL=Platform, Creators=Content and Users=Consumers. In a way this is where SL has been slowly evolving to. For Many SL creators choosing to work on Sansar, i imagine in some areas they will have to relearn what they have learned. But Sansar has the opportunity also to attract creator hobbyists who have experience in things like UNITY or UNREAL games engines, the tag line possibly being ‘build your games while in the game’ or ‘Easiest way to cobble a VR experience together’. It’s all very exciting. It’s like waiting for the new star wars film, will it suck?

  5. I did some talk with some good friend and this blog. I did raise the sail and steering starboard. heading to sansar. but still keep i rope connected to the other direction for one year. SanSar feels more interesting as long the price is good. It’s time to creative and not need to be worry about server things.

    Sculpts are just nasty, prims are old and limited, and nobody knows what build tools SanSar get.

    I think mesh in SanSar is more easy to use then in secondlife.
    I just learned todo both way’s baked uv-mapping (good for small objects). and the materials way. I expect then you can make much better optimized mesh in sansar then in secondlife. i figured out that i can do some things still better. If you can make sculpts, then i do not see why mesh would be impossible, sculpts where really difficult to paint. There’s a starters guide on escapedes to learn some blender basics. Start learning now.

    Yes, people need to relearn some things. like C#, but at the end, if you used one or a few programming languages the basics keep the same. And i made in the past already a same C# dos program. Just need to scratch rusty off. and learn more. Pretty sure support is coming in some way at some point. And learning javascript or C#. You need to relearn.

    For me it keeps important that i can build , means you need big land. Meaning secondlife is already a dead end for years. The second thing you need re friends, and it still looks more are interested in SanSar.

    If linden lab is smart, mabye smarter then some other vr software. The implement also mouse and keyboard correct. and i think the will do. It would be very stupid to aim for HMD only, but the optimized it for the hardware. What the need to fix is the bad camera angle and build scale secondlife have. Including the wrong camera angle. And the need to support large font / custom dpi correct.

    You still can build a world experience , combined with games in sansar.

    I also think that people look wrong to the new things. i did that a bit too. More talking could be good. But to early mabye also because not enough information. I think at the end sansar can be the biggest one in the new vr.

    I hot excited, as long land prices are good. Some idea’s hovering around my mind. The only sad thing, we need to wait still 6-12+ months before we really can see it.

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